Theist vs nontheist…..

The following was borrowed from   http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nontheist

A nontheist sees the God question as insoluble and irrelevant. Nontheists approach the God question from an empirical position, which has so far shown them that it has been impossible to either prove, or disprove the existence of God. A Nontheist considers the god hypothesis as dealing with matters that are unfalsifiable, therefore placing the question outside the realm of human knowledge. Nontheists see the question of debating God’s existence as irrelevant as debating the existence of leprechauns, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, Invisible Garage Dragons, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc.

Theist: God exists.
Nontheist: Prove it.
Theist: Well, just look around you. God created everything you see. See? That proves God!
Nontheist: I see…and how do you know that everything wasn’t created by an invisible purple Gnome named Wilbur who lives on the dark side of the moon, therefore proving Wilbur?

Theist: Because fill-in-the-blank-holy-book says that God did it!
Nontheist: Just how do you know your book’s claims are reliable though?
Theist: Because my book is self-authenicating, it says right here that it was written by God.
Nontheist: Using a book that claims self authentication commits the logical fallacy of circular reasoning. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Assertions that are unfalsifiable and immune from disproof aren’t worth much. How do you know your book wasn’t written by the Invisible Pink Unicorn?

The unnatural need for the supernatural – science and myth re-visited.

Myth can only be explained through mysticism.  Religion is willful self-delusion by an otherwise intelligent people who for some reason feel a need for the supernatural in their lives.  The only place where modern science and religion (myth) meet is in history.

Never once throughout time has science adapted views and ideologies of religions.  However, every religion around the world today is desperately trying to incorporate science and the scientific method into their ‘theology’ by trying to show that they have ‘always’ had modern scientific theories embedded in their literature.

Of course the science is right, religions are just slow to catch on.  Since religions do not want to loose their converts, they will do anything to modify their ideologies to keep people interested and somewhat current.  Naturally, by doing this, worldwide proponents of continued myths (christian, muslim, vedic, pagan, jewish, etc.) are unwittingly validating all of science….here is who I am, “from the big bang I evolved so that now I am”.

Proving the man made nature of all religious writings…..essay to come.

Well, this should be easy.  Man, men specifically, wrote all the religious books.   Enough said.   There is no way for anyone to disprove this obvious statement: men wrote the books.  The proof is the very fact that the books are here.  Since they are here, and we can read them, then men wrote them.

Where did the inspiration for these ‘writings’ come from?  The answer is that the inspiration for the ‘books’ came from the minds of men as molded and shaped by their environment and culture at that particular time in history.  This too is unquestionably obvious.  It’s the very same source as the writers of all works of literature down through time – the inventiveness of the human mind – as has been developed over time by the evolution of  mankind.

Why do some choose to ignore the ‘proof’ that all the writings of the worlds religions are really man made?  I’m sure that every person on earth has a rationale for their beliefs.  But the truth is, all those beliefs are societal in nature and mythically based and unfounded in science and reason.

More to come…..post your comments….

Thanks!  Tim Williamson

Religious wars & Peace on earth and goodwill toward all

Here are a few references concerning peace and religions……

Jewish–Roman wars – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://bit.ly/9iY385

Muslim conquests – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://bit.ly/cZggBo

Saxon Wars – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://bit.ly/aUZtY7

Religious war – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://bit.ly/cAM682

Reformation: Religious Wars http://bit.ly/95Ho75

On the issue of beheading the historian Ramsay MacMullen notes that in 681 a council of bishops at Toledo called on civil authorities to seize and behead all those guilty of non-Christian practices of whatever sort.[1] These massacres were common on both sides throughout the Christianization of Europe, with similar events involving pagan Saxons, Germans and Celts and Christians documented in Britain and Ireland. http://bit.ly/9GywOl

European wars of religion – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://bit.ly/906ywZ

religious wars – Google Search http://bit.ly/9MR82u

Wars of Religion http://bit.ly/dmGjdK

Lecture 6: Europe in the Age of Religious Wars, 1560-1715 http://bit.ly/ceZhFN

Second Sudanese Civil War – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://bit.ly/9A5sQD

Religiously based civil unrest and warfare http://bit.ly/dmxg2h

Inquisition – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://bit.ly/aTPst8

(In 1 Samuel 15:3, the Lord orders a mass slaughter of the Amalekite tribe: “Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child.” These days, that would earn God an indictment before the International Criminal Court.)  http://nyti.ms/bxV1j5

gods teachings and peace on earth

Hammad said:

I want to put some core points related to my faith.

1) My faith is same as all other faiths. it has a revelation (holy book).

2) My faith came in the last of all faiths. we are the preserver of this last revelation (holy quran) from God

3) My faith says that all other faiths were in fact from God. All nations/tribes on this world were given guidance (divine revelation/book) from God.

4) My faiths tells us that all other faiths have been man-altered therefore they are not present in their original scripture. Due to this fact my faith was revealed. My faith is the last one. No more faith is to come now.

5) My faith teaches/guides me that God is all power, all creator.

6) It is universal fact that as time passes by faith followers modify their faith according to their understanding. In other words they challenge God i.e., They doubt in God’s understanding.

7) Therefore unfortunately my faith now has more than dozens of definitions.

8) Other faiths also have the same scenario

I think that without faith the union of whole of the mankind is not possible. We will have to unite first on one point before making such a union. This one point is nothing but believing in supremacy of one God. Considering everything as God’s creation makes it simple. Concentrating on finding the truth hidden in God’s revelations (holy books) is next step.

Muslims proudly claim that all other faiths have been man-altered. But I think that they themselves are not wise enough to understand accurately the hidden message in the Holy Quran.

I’m not attacking any one faith. If any faith has proven itself by its actions over time not just by its words and teachings to have placed no value on human life, then it is wrong. That statement applies universally to christians, muslims, jewish, old mayan, hindu, vedic, buddhist, all the faiths equally.   I respect the foundations of your faith Hammad, but being last to be ‘revealed’ does not belie the fact that if human life is not valued, as proven by actions and not words, then there is something wrong there.

Brother Hammad there are people throughout the world today who claim to hear the voice of their god or allah, and who say they have received a revelation, but who are sincerely wrong.  These people have followers too.  And over 2 or 3 centuries, a religion will be built up around them as well.  It was true for Abraham and David. It was true for Jesus and Mohammed. And it was true for Joseph Smith and David Koresh.  All believed with all their hearts that god or allah had singled them out for something special.

Being the ‘newest’ one on the block only makes it right if they are truly better than the previous ones. How can we know if it truly is better – simple, is there peace on earth because of it, has the murder, death, destruction, misery and intolerance stopped or slowed between all the cultures, religions, peoples and ideologies on earth. If not them it is wrong.  That is a logical statement.

Every person on earth came from a very small band of humans out of Africa some 75,000 years. We are all the same, but fantastically and wonderfully different, but still undeniably the same.  There is only one thing that should take precedent over all else, and that is that we are humans and our humanity is more important than all our differences.

If any faith does not by its actions value our differences and our humanity, then something must be changed. Proof, not force, is the key.

This is my message, my desire, my plea – peace on earth and goodwill to all – peace based on understanding, compassion, tolerance.  It can only be achieved when we honestly realize that no one is more right than another.

Hammmad thanks for your very insightful comments. yes! not only was the original message delivered through a man, in all cases, but you are right in that man continues to interpret that message through their own dark glasses….using it to his or her own advantage.

Peace on earth??? Is it achievable? How?

Hammad: With all due respect, no one religion has a monopoly on rightness. As a matter of fact, as you and I have discussed before, history, my friend undeniably shows that more death, destruction, misery and intolerance has been carried out in the name of religion or god, than for all other reasons combined through all of recorded time.

Claiming that one way has some god given right to dominate others, no matter which one it is, is wrong. We must work toward a solution that first secures peace on earth, and secondly, the right for all men and women to have the freedom to choose their own path – whether secular or theistic. Now, when any religion demands its way be universallyaccepted, and does so through the imposition of death, misery, destruction or intolerance for others beliefs, then, that is wrong in every sense of the word. I am including in this statement all the worlds religions and ideologies. Here is a very simply way to test religions – Is there peace within your faith? Honestly! Is there peace around that religion? What has history proven about that religion and its respect for human life?
Is there peace on earth? Has there ever been peace on earth? Why?

Hammad replied:  no there is no peace in present practice of my faith. present faith followers are not capable enough to implement it in its original spirit. more than 1400 years have been passed since its revelation. It needs followers of high personal attributes/character. I think that from western countries my faith can find potential for its purification. people among you may be the required mentors of my faith.

Hammad:

if western countries want to sustain what they have achieved they must think of switching.

Thank  you for your time as well Hammad.  The Faith of my forefathers and family has a 2000 year history. They too claim peace as their way.  All of the worlds faiths claim peace on earth as their way, or at least their goal.  The problem however is that none of our actions since ‘revelation’, as you put it, either in the west or the east, has shown a willingness to actually engage in peace either within their own fold and especially outside the fold.  The claim for peace is prefaced with this -”as long as you switch to our way”.  Every religion has done that, or made that caveat to their proclamation of ‘peace on earth’.

Is it not true that humans have died in massive numbers on all sides over religious ideologies  for thousands of years?  I know from the Quran that all human life is sacred in your faith. If you know the writings of the people of the way (Christians), and those of the Torah, or of the Vedic writings, then you know as well as I do  that all have said that love and peace and tolerance are taught as cornerstones in each one.  But, the reality is that from the very first days of ‘revelation’, as you put it, there have been wars and communities of fellow human beings were wiped from the face of the earth for no other reason than that they failed to accept the “”obvious”" rightness of a particular faith.  What then is the real problem?

Yes there are people and groups within each faith that bring dishonor and disrespect to the original teachings.  It would serve those religions with great honor and respect throughout the world if believers within those faiths stood up and challenged those who dishonor the teachings of the prophets – whether those prophets were Jesus or Muhammed, David or Abraham.  Here is a simple test – if the actions of a set of beliefs encourages any disrespect for others views or the killing of others because they have failed to accept the’rightness’ of your ways or the destruction of peoples arts and literature then that is wrong.  In that case then it is obvious to all that the very foundations of those beliefs must be changes.  All human life is to be valued.  It does not matter that they do not believe the same, or look the same, or if their culture and language or religion is the same.  It only matters that we are all brothers and sisters on this planet.  That is to be respected and honored. If that is not the central premise proven by actions, then the teachings are wrong.

Do we as a people of this earth have the honesty and honor and strength to confront truth openly – not just the truth as it is taught in a particular way or faith, but the whole truth?  I ask myself this – Do I have the courage to look first in the mirror of self reflection and decide that this is right and good, or that this is not right and must be changed?  Am I willing to honestly evaluate my beliefs and the true history of those beliefs, or am I not strong enough to face the truth? Would it better for me to go on and keep my head buried in the sand, and just continue to ignore those things that are without question wrong in all our beliefs?  It is very easy to see if there are errors in the teachings and writing of our historical leaders – if another human has lost his life because he or she disagreed, or if I have been inconsiderate and intolerant toward others because of my beliefs, then I must change. My way has then been proven to be godless or allahless if you will.

Peace on earth and goodwill toward all – that message is christian, muslim, jewish, vedic,..all of them.  Let’s change all our ways to reflect that simple truth. If our way does not fit that, then we must change….Simple, but hard.

Thank  you for your time as well Hammad.  The Faith of my forefathers and family has a 2000 year history. They too claim peace as their way.  All of the worlds faiths claim peace on earth as their way, or at least their goal.  The problem however is that none of our actions since ‘revelation’, as you put it, either in the west or the east, has shown a willingness to actually engage in peace either within their own fold and especially outside the fold.  The claim for peace is prefaced with this -”as long as you switch to our way”.  Every religion has done that, or made that caveat to their proclamation of ‘peace on earth’.
Is it not true that humans have died in massive numbers on all sides over religious ideologies  for thousands of years?  I know from the Quran that all human life is sacred in your faith. If you know the writings of the people of the way (Christians), and those of the Torah, or of the Vedic writings, then you know as well as I do  that all have said that love and peace and tolerance are taught as cornerstones in each one.  But, the reality is that from the very first days of ‘revelation’, as you put it, there have been wars and communities of fellow human beings were wiped from the face of the earth for no other reason than that they failed to accept the “”obvious”" rightness of a particular faith.  What then is the real problem?
Yes there are people and groups within each faith that bring dishonor and disrespect to the original teachings.  It would serve those religions with great honor and respect throughout the world if believers within those faiths stood up and challenged those who dishonor the teachings of the prophets – whether those prophets were Jesus or Muhammed, David or Abraham.  Here is a simple test – if the actions of a set of beliefs encourages any disrespect for others views or the killing of others because they have failed to accept the’rightness’ of your ways or the destruction of peoples arts and literature then that is wrong.  In that case then it is obvious to all that the very foundations of those beliefs must be changes.  All human life is to be valued.  It does not matter that they do not believe the same, or look the same, or if their culture and language or religion is the same.  It only matters that we are all brothers and sisters on this planet.  That is to be respected and honored. If that is not the central premise proven by actions, then the teachings are wrong.
Do we as a people of this earth have the honesty and honor and strength to confront truth openly – not just the truth as it is taught in a particular way or faith, but the whole truth?  I ask myself this – Do I have the courage to look first in the mirror of self reflection and decide that this is right and good, or that this is not right and must be changed?  Am I willing to honestly evaluate my beliefs and the true history of those beliefs, or am I not strong enough to face the truth? Would it better for me to go on and keep my head buried in the sand, and just continue to ignore those things that are without question wrong in all our beliefs?  It is very easy to see if there are errors in the teachings and writing of our historical leaders – if another human has lost his life because he or she disagreed, or if I have been inconsiderate and intolerant toward others because of my beliefs, then I must change. My way has then been proven to be godless or allahless if you will.
Peace on earth and goodwill toward all – that message is christian, muslim, jewish, vedic,..all of them.  Let’s change all our ways to reflect that simple truth. If our way does not fit that, then we must change….Simple, but hard.

Comments on Social Media – — stating our opinions..

That is what makes this a very unique medium. We can share our opinions, explore what others from differing backgrounds and places think,and, hopefully, if we haven’t become too jaded in our own insular views, we can grow. The one thing that is very apparent as I connect and communicate with people from every walk of life, every religious background, and many different cultures and nations on earth, is that we are all, for the most part, absolutely convinced of the “rightness’ of our particularly closely held views and interpretation of events and happenings. We view the world through glasses of our own design. But when we take the first step to walk in others shoes, then we will begin the challenging process of actually seeing the bigger picture of what true ‘rightness’ is.
The beauty of humanity is that not only are many of us different in language, culture and look, but we perceive our world from our own biases. Communicating reveals those biases, and brings them into the light of day. Our opinions matter. Our backgrounds matter. Those opinions and backgrounds are to be respected and honored. Likewise however, we should be willing to explore the possibility that people everywhere see things through their own dark lenses. And, so do we.
More often than not, people tend to keep their opinions to themselves because of two general reasons. The first of those reasons, and probably the most significant, is that we do not want or like confrontation or challenges to those opinions. We prefer to have our opinions go unchallenged. That way we avoid the possibility of having to change. The second reason is that we are generally afraid that our close friends and family may not understand us, or think that somehow we changed so much that they will not recognize us, or even accept us for who we are and that we do have opinions that are different.
Anyway, your opinions are important, and they do matter.

Our differences,….past, present and future.

Well, it seems that baseless inflammatory rhetoric trumps intelligent discourse for many people in the world today-like in the dark ages..WOW Do you suppose they will get to hanging dissenters and academia too….maybe we should re-visit the “Foundation” Trilogy.

Lawal Olanrewaju Kazzym Success said  ”May be we should revisit dat”

Marguerite Walker said  ”What?”

ME:  I was commenting on the inflammatory rhetoric of those on the far far right…in reference to an encounter on twitter with a young educated person who chooses to just fan the flames of fear and anger in our country rather than seek intelligent discourse. I will typically comment on things that are obviously indefensible and unprovable non-sense on all kinds of topics.

Just venting…….LOL, but my comment about re-visiting the “Foundation” Trilogy would be a great case study, though fictionalized, of history over very long periods of time…..

The Foundation books and the Foundation Trilogy were a series of books written by isaac Asimov – One of the very best Sci-Fi writers on the planet. Asimov coined the word – Psycho-history – in his Foundation series.
He also wrote ‘I Robot’, from which a movie of the same name was made.

Ronnie V. Thompson said:   “come back to planet earth, please. lois”

Me:   never left……lol hey cuz, there are things much bigger and more significant than many of the things we MUST deal with on a daily basis, though local issues are extremely important…Hopefully, the ideas I mention will help many others to think on a larger more global scale outside of their normal comfort zones, and to appreciate the fact that we are bound to each other throughout all the earth. Cultural, ethnic, religious, and political differences should be respected and honored but not allowed to perpetuate continued division and animosity around the globe.

So I reach out and talk and discuss these things with whomever around our world is willing to honestly and openly debate on these topics with an open mind, myself included. Basically, I am engaging people everywhere in a global conversation about all the things that divide us, and those things that should unite us. But, planet earth, IS really what it is all about….the whole thing, and all it’s wonderfully diverse and great people.

The origins of humanity, and the elasticity and mutation of cultures over time.

African History From Newsweek –  posted by Jamon Jordan on Facebook……

“According to geneticists, the tracing of humanity’s mitochondrial DNA has proven that ALL human bein…”

ME;    Jamon: Yes, all of humanity originated out of Africa. So the idea that color, the shape of our eyes, or the type of hair we have has anything at all to do with things that matter has once again been proven to be irrevocably insignificant. It also means that the differences that have arisen in languages and beliefs (religious or otherwise) are also not important or valid.

Response by: Oya Amakisi ” I disagree. Culture is the impetus that moves humanity. Racism, sexism, class, etc are not valid. I don’t want to live in a world where our differences are not honored and respected.”

ME;   Our differences should make us stronger as a global community. Yes! Of course we should honor and respect our differences, but when those differences are used as a means to justify the imposition of misery or death or destruction or intolerance on others simply because they are different, or that they don’t believe the same way, then that my friend is wrong.
Yes! We are different, outwardly, but we are still the same. Genetically, there is not a person on earth who can not trace his or her ancestry from Africa. You! Me! We’re all the same. We may look and act differently, but we are still cousins and family. Beyond all the obvious outward differences such as culture, language, religions, ethnicity, politics, national origins, we are undeniably the same. We are brothers and sisters of this diverse and fascinating human family. Don’t you think we should start treating each other as family?

Response by Jamon Jordan:    ”Biologically, we are ONE human family. It is culture/ethnicity that has a stronger connection to our identities.”

ME;    True! But only because it is more recent in time. Culture and ideologies and religions shift and mutate over relatively short periods of time, whereas our physical differences occurred over the past 75,000 years – a far longer period of time. The more we communicate and expand our connections globally, the more open societies are to allowingdiversity and contact among peoples around the world, then we will see the inevitable blending of cultures, ideas and concepts. This type of blending and assimilation of cultures is historically based. It happens all the time. But now the world is connected as never before. Over time you will see people trying to hold desperately to the old ways while the world around them grows up and matures beyond the current state of culture, ideologies, and even ethnicity.
I know for my part, cousin, I am working to establish connections globally to encourage and strengthen those things we have in common, while respecting and honoring our differences.

Response by Jamon Jordan:   “No disagreement with me. Cultures change, people who were connected become less so as time passes and changes are made, and by the same token, people who are not culturally connected become more so as time passes.”

Tolerance and God

Shittu:

Tolerance is the issue. Respect for all views and beliefs is also inextricably connected to the issue of tolerance. There should be no question anywhere in the world about whether tolerance and respect are singularly important- including EU, America and the various Islamic States.

But, the reality is intolerance is and has been the norm – everywhere -more so in the middle east than elsewhere. Now don’t get me wrong, intolerance of others views and ways is also rampant in the west. Let me try to explain why that is the case in just one example – recently, a Muslim man living in Arizona ran over and killed his own daughter because he claimed she was dishonoring his family by becoming too westernized – she wanted to dress like any American young person. His actions were to say the very least godless or allahless if you will. His actions portray the definition of intolerance. That is the perception many in the world have about the teachings of the Quran. Right or wrong that is the way it is perceived.

My point is this, tolerance can only be obtained for your views when it is also explicitly taught and observed within your views. If you want tolerance and acceptance and respect, then it must be proven to exist in that ‘faith’ as well.You can not demand tolerance and acceptance for your views when it has been shown repeatedly not to exist within your views. But it IS NOT the exclusive problem of just the Muslim faith.

This problem of intolerance also applies ALL the worlds’ religions. Between the various faiths, and even withing those faiths, there is taught and encouraged separation and angst and fear and animosity toward those who are not like them. There has been more death and destruction and intolerance and misery inflicted on non-believers in the name of god or allah or yahweh (and all others) than for all other reasons combined throughout history. This is still true today. There is a solution.

Would you not agree that this MUST STOP? Intolerance is a symptom of the bigger issue. And that issue that one group believes with all their heart and mind and soul that their way is the only true and right way, and say “Why can’t you see that I’m telling you the truth?” What is the solution to this problem Shittu? How should this be resolved?